Why Wc is Bad!!!

[Mike Withrow]

I actually just read a paper published about that exact thing. The very bottom of our eco system parasites ect being wiped out and lots of things seem to collapse.
Honestly it was kinda scary to read.

 

[Olan]

The hobby is bigger and more aware than it used to be. We need to outgrow wild collecting.
The way to do it is some version of the Mexico Brachypelma project.
Collect wild male and female and pair them. Release male back into the wild.
Female produces eggsac in captivity. Keep them until 2nd or 3rd instar.
Release half the slings, sell the other half.
Release female, or keep to breed again with new male next year.

 

[SpookySpooder]

The hobby is bigger and more aware than it used to be. We need to outgrow wild collecting.
The way to do it is some version of the Mexico Brachypelma project.
Collect wild male and female and pair them. Release male back into the wild.
Female produces eggsac in captivity. Keep them until 2nd or 3rd instar.
Release half the slings, sell the other half.
Release female, or keep to breed again with new male next year.

That sounds like a great way to conserve the wild populations AND rear captive bred stock for the pet trade.

Too bad I don't have faith that our legislative system will even want to implement anything like this. Seems like they got other priorities in mind.

Can you provide some sources on how Mexico operates this conservation program? I couldn't find anything at a glance

 

[l4nsky]

The hobby is bigger and more aware than it used to be. We need to outgrow wild collecting.
The way to do it is some version of the Mexico Brachypelma project.
Collect wild male and female and pair them. Release male back into the wild.
Female produces eggsac in captivity. Keep them until 2nd or 3rd instar.
Release half the slings, sell the other half.
Release female, or keep to breed again with new male next year.

What you're referring to is called ranching. It's practiced with alligators today in Louisiana where eggs are wild collected and 15% are returned to the wild when they hit a size where their only natural predators are other alligators (see Dirty Jobs).

Similar forms of wild collection and captive rearing have occured with ball pythons and blood pythons in their native ranges where wild caught, gravid females are taken into captivity until their eggs hatch and then the females are released, preserving the wild broodstock. Think about some of the absolutely crazy ball python morphs and think how did the genetic predeccesors of these animals ever survive in the wild? They didn't, they were usually captive hatched and sold to the highest bidder, forming the massive hobby as it stands today.

Then you have the Columbian dart frog approach where species that can't support collection techniques like this are brought into captivity to form genetically diverse broodstock colonies and they're bred in their country of origin by dedicated individuals that want to undercut the illegal poachers and preserve the wildstock.

There are several ways for this to be sustainable, but sadly they're not the easiest way, hence not the most common path taken.

 

[curtisgiganteus]

I don’t know all the bureaucracy behind it but from my understanding, US/EU markets are constantly trying to get the best prices on F0 stuff. So much so that I’m poor countries like the phillipines, they have to catch more in order to meet the same minimum gain they did 6 months ago. Here is a little taste of what I’m talking about.

 

[Olan]

That sounds like a great way to conserve the wild populations AND rear captive bred stock for the pet trade.

Too bad I don't have faith that our legislative system will even want to implement anything like this. Seems like they got other priorities in mind.

Can you provide some sources on how Mexico operates this conservation program? I couldn't find anything at a glance

CEC’s Action Plan for Sustainable Trade in Tarantulas

Important Reading For all Hobbyists Recently, the Commission for Environmental Cooperation (CEC) released five action plans “to promote legal, sustainable and traceable trade in selected Nort…

tomsbigspiders.com

I think this explains it

What you're referring to is called ranching. It's practiced with alligators today in Louisiana where eggs are wild collected and 15% are returned to the wild when they hit a size where their only natural predators are other alligators (see Dirty Jobs).

Similar forms of wild collection and captive rearing have occured with ball pythons and blood pythons in their native ranges where wild caught, gravid females are taken into captivity until their eggs hatch and then the females are released, preserving the wild broodstock. Think about some of the absolutely crazy ball python morphs and think how did the genetic predeccesors of these animals ever survive in the wild? They didn't, they were usually captive hatched and sold to the highest bidder, forming the massive hobby as it stands today.

Then you have the Columbian dart frog approach where species that can't support collection techniques like this are brought into captivity to form genetically diverse broodstock colonies and they're bred in their country of origin by dedicated individuals that want to undercut the illegal poachers and preserve the wildstock.

There are several ways for this to be sustainable, but sadly they're not the easiest way, hence not the most common path taken.

yeah, not the easiest way. But if we all buy only captive born, the incentive for any other way dries up.
Hence I will always only buy captive born.

 

[Liquifin]

This is a problem that affects everyone. If you're in the top of the tarantula hobby as in reputable breeder, business, exporter/importer. Then you're most likely working on WC for breeding purposes and any extra WC will be sold off for a price. Now what people do with them is what matters. This is just my opinion, but if you're breeding WC specimens, then I wouldn't fault the person too much, especially if it's a rare species. Now we're talking about this as in the breeder is experienced in their work. But I usually apply this for species that are more hard to come by or just isn't as common to come by.

CB is always the recommended way to go, but it really just depends on the person. Some are more wise or reckless than others. And this cycle is mostly never-ending since the beginning. So I'm curious what future hobbyists would still think on this topic.

 

[catboyeuthanasia]

On this note, I'm curious if there is any way hobbiest breeders can contribute directly to preserving the wild population. Is there a way for us to donate our specimens to breeding programs aimed at wild populations? Or is the way we contribute just offering people nice captive bred animals as an alternative to unsustainable wc ones?

 

[waynerowley]

I share many of the concerns about wild caught Ts.

But.

We‘d have no hobby if it were not for wild caught Ts.

Do we want to say no to keeping any new species?

What happens when the gene pool of captive bred Ts slowly decays?

 

[Marcostaco]

I don’t know all the bureaucracy behind it but from my understanding, US/EU markets are constantly trying to get the best prices on F0 stuff. So much so that I’m poor countries like the phillipines, they have to catch more in order to meet the same minimum gain they did 6 months ago. Here is a little taste of what I’m talking about.

View attachment 459175

But ALL of this is illegal in the Philippines. Very much illegal, everything that goes in and out of the country is illegally smuggled.

98% of the tarantula hobby in the Philippines is illegal. You have to register and pay for each and every one of your specimens to "register" them. "Registering" just one is very expensive, now imagine "registering" your whole collection. A good sized collection would easy require 500k (in Philippine money) to "register". But it's all just government corruption.

Most of the people in the Philippines are barely surviving, why would they even think of "registering" one tarantula.

 

[Olan]

I share many of the concerns about wild caught Ts.

But.

We‘d have no hobby if it were not for wild caught Ts.

Do we want to say no to keeping any new species?

What happens when the gene pool of captive bred Ts slowly decays?

The ranching solution described by me and @l4nsky above fixes all these problems without decimating wild populations.

 

[Tentacle Toast]

The ranching solution described by me and @l4nsky above fixes all these problems without decimating wild populations.

I'm inclined to believe this, BUT...there is always a BUT, & in those instances, I'm inclined towards

But.

We‘d have no hobby if it were not for wild caught Ts.

Do we want to say no to keeping any new species?

What happens when the gene pool of captive bred Ts slowly decays?

I can't believe it's as hard as it is for some people to believe, BUT... sometimes the best regulation is no regulation.

 

[curtisgiganteus]

But ALL of this is illegal in the Philippines. Very much illegal, everything that goes in and out of the country is illegally smuggled.

98% of the tarantula hobby in the Philippines is illegal. You have to register and pay for each and every one of your specimens to "register" them. "Registering" just one is very expensive, now imagine "registering" your whole collection. A good sized collection would easy require 500k (in Philippine money) to "register". But it's all just government corruption.

Most of the people in the Philippines are barely surviving, why would they even think of "registering" one tarantula.

Philippines is a bad example. Vietnam would have been a better one.

 

[Olan]

I'm inclined to believe this, BUT...there is always a BUT, & in those instances, I'm inclined towards

I can't believe it's as hard as it is for some people to believe, BUT... sometimes the best regulation is no regulation.

It doesn’t even have to include regulations. We can just purchase slings only (except between hobbyists). Then you know they were either captive bred or ranched. No other practical way to get slings besides those.
Maybe not everyone will follow this philosophy. But can’t hurt to try to spread these ideas. And each one of us can take personal responsibility for our own purchasing habits.

 

[Tentacle Toast]

... And each one of us can take personal responsibility for our own purchasing habits.

Perfect.
I'm a plant guy....this works for me.

 

[spideyspinneret78]

I'm a firm believer in captive bred whenever possible, and that we should do our best to support and encourage breeding animals in captivity for a multitude of reasons. One of the issues is that people often don't understand why it's important to try and avoid WC specimens. When I first started out, I admit that I didn't. It's important to spread awareness and tout the benefits of buying captive bred specimens. Vote with your wallet and buy from vendors that sell captive bred animals.

 

[Tentacle Toast]

...No other practical way to get slings besides those...

...until THAT'S the loophole exploited...
Demand will always equal supply...no exceptions

 

[SpookySpooder]

...until THAT'S the loophole exploited...
Demand will always equal supply...no exceptions

I think you meant to say demand and supply will regulate each other, because one can definitely not equal the other.

IE:
More demand than supply = poaching rare species
More supply than demand = Lasiodora parahybana

 

[Ultum4Spiderz]

Update I left some detail out of the first post. Recently lost a female curly hair I got from the pet shop never could understand why perhaps it was sick and I didn’t know or had some illness. Hurts bad to spend $50 when I’m low on cash. And end up with nothing.
Everything else I got there is suspect Male.
So while I had good luck with my third tarantula Buying it from a pet store, my recent luck is bad.
Does this mean wc is bad ?? Or just my recent experience.
They may be good for breeders.

 

[DustyD]

The hobby is bigger and more aware than it used to be. We need to outgrow wild collecting.
The way to do it is some version of the Mexico Brachypelma project.
Collect wild male and female and pair them. Release male back into the wild.
Female produces eggsac in captivity. Keep them until 2nd or 3rd instar.
Release half the slings, sell the other half.
Release female, or keep to breed again with new male next year.

This would be great if other countries such as Chile took this approach. Maybe it is doing breeding programs. If so they are not as well known as Mexico’s efforts. I would think it would add at least a few jobs.